Rig build problem

Memoira · **Joined:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:38 am **Posts:** 2

Heya!

I'm building a rig where i can use both of my amplifiers ( HEAD's : Blackstar series one 104 EL34 ( midi controll ) and Engl E-670 6L6 Special Edition ( midi controll ) + i use two blackstar 4x12 cabs celestion vintage 30 )

and all of my stompboxes, exp/volume pedals , wah, tuner and g-marjor 2.
My goal is to get both of my guitar heads into use and all of my effects but im not sure what more do i need except Ground controll pro and GCX audio switcher.

On effect side i have:

STOMPBOX

- Boss ps6 ( harmonizer )
- Carl martin compressor/limitter
- Vortex flanger tc electronics
- tc electronics Dreamscape
- Tuner

Multieffect

- G-major 2 tc electronics

Pedals

- exp pedal
- Ernie ball volume pedal
- Vox wah ( holopainen signature )

i just simple want to get everything behind one preset for example :

Bank 1 preset 1 = Blackstar channel clean with g-marjor 2 reverb & delay & chorus + vortex flanger
Bank 1 preset 2 = ENGL E-670 channel Crunch with g-major 2 reverb - Carl martin compressor -
Bank 1 preset 3 = Blackstar channel OD2 with g-major 2 reverb - Boss ps6 - dreamscape
Bank 1 preset 4 = ENGL E-670 channel Lead 2 with g-major 2 reverb /delay - dreamscape + wah + compressor

If anyone could please tell me how in the F¤%¤ do i get all that workin like that and what more do i need to buy ( another gcx?Control Switcher? to be able it to get work =) thnx a lot

ps. can anyone draw map or do a work sheet http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams/bl ... heet_p.pdf

a2dconverter · **Joined:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:32 am **Posts:** 47

Hi Memoira

I have taken libertys with your system..

I placed the wah, comp, PS-6 and Flanger before your amps

I am switching the G-Major and Dreamscape between the 2 amp FX loops.

Since you are switching the input to the G-Major, as you switch between heads, the Delays will trail back to the FX returns.

I assume that you want to run everything in MONO

I also assumed that you will switch between the two amps (as opposed to using both at the same time)(since you have 2 amps, one day you might benefit from running one amp dry and one to amplify wet FX only.)

I assumed that you will be using the MIDi capabilities of these amps to change channels/ reverb etc.

You may have some HUM from your heads that means that you may require some type of ISO box

Anyway, have a look, this should get you making sounds!

seeya

Joe

nyteowl · **Joined:** Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am **Posts:** 530

With reference to the above diagram, I can appreciate the amount of time and effort that went into its creation, but Loop 6 isn't going to work. You cannot connect the FX Send from either amp to the Send or Out jack of a GCX Loop without the risk of potentially damaging one or both amps. The FX Sends from the two amplifiers should be connected to either the In or Return jacks of a GCX Loop.

Loop 7 is also questionable. While you can connect that loop's Out jack to the G-Major Mono input, connecting the G-Major's Left and Right Out jacks to the Return jacks of two separate amplifiers will not necessarily yield a Mono signal in both places. What you will get instead, at each respective amp, is one side or the other of the stereo image, and any effect that involves panning is going to fade in and fade out.

If I may, I would like to suggest making these connections instead:

Most Ernie Ball Volume pedals have a Tuner Out jack. You should connect your tuner there if you can; if not, use the GCX Feed Thru jack.

Shift the connections illustrated for Loops 2 thru 5 to the left, making them in Loops 1 thru 4. Then connect Loops 5 thru 8 as follows:

Amp 1 FX Send -> Loop 5 In; Amp 2 FX Send -> Loop 5 Return; Loop 5 Out -> Loop 6 In

Loop 6 Send -> Dreamscape In; Dreamscape Out -> Loop 6 Return; Loop 6 Out -> Loop 7 In
Loop 7 Send -> G-Major Mono In; G-Major Mono Out -> Loop 7 Return; Loop 7 Out -> Loop 8 In

Loop 8 Send -> Amp 2 FX Return; Loop 8 Out -> Amp 1 FX Return

Making these connections keeps the Dreamscape and G-Major in the FX loops, but now you can use one, the other, neither, or both as you see fit, which you would not have been able to do if they were connected as shown in the diagram, as the G-Major would always have been on. Also, since the assumption has already been made you'll be running the G-Major in Mono, there's no need to use the Left and Right outputs on that device.

So the Amp 1 FX Loop will be your default. When Loops 5 and 8 are Off, the Dreamscape and G-Major will run through the Amp 1 FX Loop, but when Loops 5 and 8 are activated, they'll be routed through the Amp 2 FX Loop. If you configure Loops 5 and 8 so their On/Off status is tied to Loop 4, when you switch amps you'll also switch effects loops.

Of course, this is just a starting point for a Mono rig. If you want to run the G-Major in stereo, or run both amps simultaneously, that's an entirely different ball game.

a2dconverter · **Joined:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:32 am **Posts:** 47

Time for rebuttal!! (In-Line the below text in RED)... in good humour of course with no disrepect...

I have a very complex GCX rig that has been growing since the 80's ...

Subject: Rig build problem

nyteowl wrote:

With reference to the above diagram, I can appreciate the amount of time and effort that went into its creation, but Loop 6 isn't going to work. You cannot connect the FX Send from either amp to the Send or Out jack of a GCX Loop without the risk of potentially damaging one or both amps. The FX Sends from the two amplifiers should be connected to either the In or Return jacks of a GCX Loop.

You can actually do this! Loop 6 acts as a SPDT switch... Internally it is just a relay so no damage can occur! (By using the ins as outs and the outs as ins you will be switching the input of the G-Major between the 2 Amp Sends)

Loop 7 is also questionable. While you can connect that loop's Out jack to the G-Major Mono input, connecting the G-Major's Left and Right Out jacks to the Return jacks of two separate amplifiers will not necessarily yield a Mono signal in both places. What you will get instead, at each respective amp, is one side or the other of the stereo image, and any effect that involves panning is going to fade in and fade out.

I'm using the 2 outputs to feed the amps without any external equipment. This will work as long as you are not running "kill dry" in the G-Major. It looks like the original poster is using the G-Major for Reverb, and maybe delays, so running this way would not be a problem. I would run a proper dry and wet system with a mixer but, I didn't want to get too complex as the original poster was looking for help and needed a simple starting place

If I may, I would like to suggest making these connections instead:

Most Ernie Ball Volume pedals have a Tuner Out jack. You should connect your tuner there if you can; if not, use the GCX Feed Thru jack.

I personally do not like Volume pedals as even the 250k models affect the load presented to the Guitar Pick-ups, so using a GCX loop as an A/B switch to the tuner is an easy way to mute everything for tuning

Shift the connections illustrated for Loops 2 thru 5 to the left, making them in Loops 1 thru 4. Then connect Loops 5 thru 8 as follows:

Amp 1 FX Send -> Loop 5 In; Amp 2 FX Send -> Loop 5 Return; Loop 5 Out -> Loop 6 In

Loop 6 Send -> Dreamscape In; Dreamscape Out -> Loop 6 Return; Loop 6 Out -> Loop 7 In
Loop 7 Send -> G-Major Mono In; G-Major Mono Out -> Loop 7 Return; Loop 7 Out -> Loop 8 In

Loop 8 Send -> Amp 2 FX Return; Loop 8 Out -> Amp 1 FX Return

Making these connections keeps the Dreamscape and G-Major in the FX loops, but now you can use one, the other, neither, or both as you see fit, which you would not have been able to do if they were connected as shown in the diagram, as the G-Major would always have been on. Also, since the assumption has already been made you'll be running the G-Major in Mono, there's no need to use the Left and Right outputs on that device.

Since the G-Major has a nice internal relay for Bypass, I was thinking that the G-Major could be bypassed over MIDI thereby saving a GCX loop

So the Amp 1 FX Loop will be your default. When Loops 5 and 8 are Off, the Dreamscape and G-Major will run through the Amp 1 FX Loop, but when Loops 5 and 8 are activated, they'll be routed through the Amp 2 FX Loop. If you configure Loops 5 and 8 so their On/Off status is tied to Loop 4, when you switch amps you'll also switch effects loops.

Of course, this is just a starting point for a Mono rig. If you want to run the G-Major in stereo, or run both amps simultaneously, that's an entirely different ball game.

I agree 8-)

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nyteowl · **Joined:** Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am **Posts:** 530

Hey, absolutely no offense taken. I am far from an expert and come here to learn just as much as share my limited knowledge. I do, however, believe oftentimes there is more than one way to get the job done, and in the end it's all a matter of personal preference. In the interests of brevity...

1. I certainly didn't know about that Ins as Outs and Outs as Ins trick.

2. While I agree your G-Major connections would work as illustrated, I still believe you're running the risk of negatively impacting stereo effects. Would it not be better to simply split the Mono out to feed both amp's respective FX Returns, thereby ensuring a Mono signal?

3a. I suggested the volume pedal Tuner jack to free up the loop I needed to accommodate the G-Major and FX returns. I understand you don't like volume pedals, but they are an integral part of many a guitar player's rig, and since the OP is already using one, why not take advantage of it?

3b. I'm also on board with using a GCX Loop (if and when available) as an A/B switch for one's tuner, but I prefer using the Send jack to feed the tuner. This allows for a shorter jumper cable to connect Loops 1 and 2, and at least to me anyway, it makes a more sense to access the tuner and bypass the rig by activating Loop 1 as opposed to the other way around. Again, simply personal preference, as either method yields the same result.

4. Yep, absolutely no reason why one couldn't bypass the G-Major using the internal relay, but a MIDI novice might not quite understand how to do that. I mean, the G-Major manual isn't the clearest booklet I've ever read, but again this could also a matter of personal preference since both methods accomplish the same thing.

Last but not least, the diagram of your rig shows a Ground Control. Are you still using that or have you replaced it with a Ground Control Pro? Also, seeing as how that is a very complex rig, is your GCX Mono or Stereo?

a2dconverter · **Joined:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:32 am **Posts:** 47

nyteowl wrote:

Hey, absolutely no offense taken. I am far from an expert and come here to learn just as much as share my limited knowledge. I do, however, believe oftentimes there is more than one way to get the job done, and in the end it's all a matter of personal preference. In the interests of brevity

I think that I can still learn something here too!

1. I certainly didn't know about that Ins as Outs and Outs as Ins trick.

2. While I agree your G-Major connections would work as illustrated, I still believe you're running the risk of negatively impacting stereo effects. Would it not be better to simply split the Mono out to feed both amp's respective FX Returns, thereby ensuring a Mono signal?

I agree, Splitting the MONO output is a better idea.

3a. I suggested the volume pedal Tuner jack to free up the loop I needed to accommodate the G-Major and FX returns. I understand you don't like volume pedals, but they are an integral part of many a guitar player's rig, and since the OP is already using one, why not take advantage of it?

Agreed!

3b. I'm also on board with using a GCX Loop (if and when available) as an A/B switch for one's tuner, but I prefer using the Send jack to feed the tuner. This allows for a shorter jumper cable to connect Loops 1 and 2, and at least to me anyway, it makes a more sense to access the tuner and bypass the rig by activating Loop 1 as opposed to the other way around. Again, simply personal preference, as either method yields the same result.

I like the idea of swapping the output and send.

4. Yep, absolutely no reason why one couldn't bypass the G-Major using the internal relay, but a MIDI novice might not quite understand how to do that. I mean, the G-Major manual isn't the clearest booklet I've ever read, but again this could also a matter of personal preference since both methods accomplish the same thing.

Last but not least, the diagram of your rig shows a Ground Control. Are you still using that or have you replaced it with a Ground Control Pro? Also, seeing as how that is a very complex rig, is your GCX Mono or Stereo?

I still use the old ground control...I've had it since the mid 80's

My GCX is MONO...the Rig is Run in MONO, but, I can run Wet/Dry if I want to...

I have a PRE OUT Jack on my patch panel that feeds the Dry signal to one amp (also disconnects the Dry Signal at the Mixer) and an FX out Jack can feed another amp with just WET FX (Dry-Killed)

Nice Discussion!

seeya

Joe

nyteowl · **Joined:** Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am **Posts:** 530

Thanks again for sharing, Joe. I'm looking forward to more of your posts!!

a2dconverter · **Joined:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:32 am **Posts:** 47

Here is a modified design using some of nyteowl's and my ideas....(since you need to, you can run head A, head B or Both...)

The G-Major will provide stereo effects between the two heads when they are both running... If you Bypass the G-major with loop 7 & 8 you will be running the amps dry with no coloration of the sound.

I love it when a plan comes together...

seeya

Joe

Memoira · **Joined:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:38 am **Posts:** 2

Great and thanks a lot guys of your time and hard work to draw the sheet =) . i was almost giving up ^^. and yes im using both heads trough midi.

Jani from Memoira

anthony555 · **Joined:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:10 am **Posts:** 1

where i think so its a bit risky as you are using high power amplifiers and you need to install relay with them.

Rig build problem

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