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Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:33 am
by wcampagner
Hello,
Please, can you help with some doubts?
I have some GCX and i like to put an effect in multiple paths.
I attached a picture with the diagram to make it easy to understand.

In the picture, i like the FX effect to be placed in two diferent positions.

So when i loop 2 ON and loop 4 OFF, the FX effect works in the first place.
When loop2 is OFF and loop 4 is ON, the FX effect works in the seconde place.

Does it works?? I know i canĀ“t never have loop 2 and 4 ON at the same time.

I read in the manual that when the loop is OFF, the send (FX input) is mutted.
So i don't know if this will work.

When CGX mutes the FX sends, it grounds the input?? Or leave it open??

Thanks in advance,
Wagner.
picture.jpg
picture.jpg (29.08 KiB) Viewed 2256 times

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:48 am
by nyteowl

Hi there,

It looks like your diagram shows 4 FX units, with FX1 in Loop1, FX2 in Loop3, FX3 in Loop5, and if I understand correctly, you sometimes want to use FX0 between FX1 and FX2 and at other times between FX2 and FX3.

Honestly, I'd be wary of making those double connections to FX0 as shown in your diagram, as there's too much potential for crossing signal paths between Loops 2 and 4, but in order to suggest an alternative method of sharing that one effect, would you please identify exactly what each of these effects are and how they'll be used. For example, will FX0 always be on and just be routed either in front of or after FX2, or will you ever run all 4 units at the same time, and if so, where will FX0 be used in that scenario?

Thanks,

jack

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:28 am
by wcampagner
Hi Nyteowl,

Thanks a lot for your answer.
Yes, that's excactly what i plan to do.
Use one effect in different parts of the signal chain.

I'm building a rack for my effects... i have 3 GCXs and 1 GCP.

The example i gave, was just a generic example to check if i could do it using the GCXs loops.

I tried to understand how the GCXs make the conections when the loop is ON of OFF, so that i could use the loops to change the order of some effects.

If the switches just open and close as chown in the GCXs manual, i think it is possible to do.

The only thing i need to understand is: when the loop is bypassed, the effect input is grounded or just left open?

If it is left open, i think it is possible to do and there will be no crossing signal paths.

I don't know if you understand... sorry for my english too.

If there is any other method to acheive the same results, i would be glad if you could explain.

Thanks again,
Wagner.

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:04 am
by nyteowl
When a loop is OFF, the signal is routed directly from that Loop's In jack to that Loop's Out jack, completely bypassing the Send and Return jacks. When a Loop is ON, the signal from the In jack is routed out thru the Send jack to the target device of your choice and whatever signal comes into the Return jack is then routed to the Out jack.

Again, I'd avoid making the connections as shown in that diagram. If I had 3 GCX's and an effect - let's call it FX0 - that I wanted to use independently in two separate locations in my signal chain, using your diagram as a reference I would do this:

As shown, FX1 is connected to the Send/Return jacks in Loop1, and the Loop1 Out jack is connected to the Loop2 In jack, so FX1 is controlled and used independently from the other FX pedals/units. Next, make the following connections:

Connect the Loop2 Send jack to the FX0 In jack.
Connect the FX0 Out jack to the Loop2 Return jack.
Connect the Loop2 Out jack to the Loop3 In jack.

Connect the Loop 3 Send jack to the Loop5 In jack. Connect the Loop5 Send/Return jacks to the FX3 In/Out jacks.
Connect the Loop 3 Out jack to the Loop4 In jack. Connect the Loop4 Send/Return jacks to the FX2 In/Out jacks.

With these connections, Loop3 controls where FX0, the shared effect, is placed in the signal chain, as follows:
When Loop2 is OFF. FX0 is bypassed altogether.
When Loop2 is ON, and Loop3 is OFF, FX0 is Active and its signal is routed to Loop 4, placing it in front of FX2.
When Loop2 is ON, and Loop3 is ON, FX0 is Active but now its signal is routed to Loop 5, placing it after FX2 and in front of FX3.


Just configure your GCPro accordingly, and you'll be good to go.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you have any further questions.

Jack

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:44 pm
by JohnClark
The original diagram would not work as drawn since the Sends do in fact short to Ground when a Loop is Bypassed. And nyteowl is certainly on the right trac, but I think there are some connections missing in the description ;)

It would take four GCX Loops to move a single effect between two different points in a signal path. Basically, you need a free loop for each location the pedal could be used in, as well as two loops to act as A/B switches. One A/B will select where the Input signal is coming from, and the other A/B will select where the Output is going to. It gets messy fast! ;)

Using the original diagram as a guide, Loops 2 and 4 would be your two possible positions. FX1, FX2, and FX3 would still be placed where you have them shown. The Sends from Loops 2 and 4 would go to the In and Return of any Free Loop to act as the Input A/B. I'll use Loop 7 as an example.

1. Loop 2 Send to Loop 7 In.
2. Loop 4 Send to Loop 7 Return.
3. Loop 7 Out to the Input of the Movable Effect.

The Output of the Movable Effect would go to the In of another Free Loop. This loop will act as the Output A/B. The Send and Out of this Loop would go to the Returns of Loops 2 and 4. I'll use Loop 8 as an an example.

4. Movable Effect Output to Loop 8 In.
5. Loop 8 Send to Loop 4 Return.
6. Loop 8 Out to Loop 2 Return.

When Loops 2, 4, 7, and 8 are Bypassed you will Bypass the Movable Effect.
When Loop 2 is Active, and Loops 4, 7, and 8 are Bypassed you will hear the Movable Effect between Loop 1 and Loop 3.
When Loop 2 is Bypassed, and Loops 4 , 7, and 8 are Active you will hear the Movable Effect between Loop 3 and Loop 5.

I hope that helps!

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:33 am
by wcampagner
Hello John and Jack,
Thanks a lot for the answers. Much appreciatted!

Yes, i saw some connections missing in Jack's suggestion.

John, thanks for you modifications, thiw way i think it will work as expected.
The downside is that it uses a lot of loops.

In my case, i want a removable effect in three diferent positions, so i'll need 3 loops on the positions and more 4 loops to do an A/B/C switch.

My question is: is there any other way to make it work with less loops?
If i change just loops 2 and 4 (in the original drawing) to make they don't ground the effect input in bypass mode?
Is there any problem doing it? This way it uses only one loop per path position.

The only issue i see, is that when the removable effect is bypassed in both loops, it's input will be "open" instead of "grounded". Is there any problem doing it?

Thanks again,
Wagner.

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:32 am
by nyteowl
My apologies, though I'm not sure what connections I missed, but in your original post you did say you wanted the "removable effect" in two positions. Your latest post, however, says you want it in three locations. which certainly does change things quite a bit, but as long as you're on the right track now, that's all that counts.


Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:11 pm
by JohnClark
It does burn up a lot of loops... I was mainly detailing how to do it as sort of a deterrent ;)

What is this effect that is moving around? Are you sure it can even just be patched around like this without also needing to adjust knobs?

At some point, simply having multiple of the same pedal becomes far easier, and maybe even less costly... three positions is going to take up 7 GCX Loops ( I think, haven't drawn it out yet ) so that's almost a whole GCX for just one pedal vs. the cost of three copies of the same pedal. Having an actual pedal dedicated for each position would also allow you to set the knobs specifically for each position.

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:26 am
by wcampagner
Hello John,

Thanks again for your answer.

The effect is a Strymon Mobius... i know that it have a pre/post feature, but i'd like also to use it's stereo feature... and i need to choose betwenn pre/post or stereo.

The third place on the signal path would be in my acoustic chain, as i like to use some effects from Mobius in my acoustic chain.

I wouldn't need to change knobs, because it is midi... i can change presets by MIDI.

I also have a Strymon Timeline that i wanted to put in 2 different places... in the begining of the chain to record a loop and playback while using the other effect on the recorded audio... and in the end of the chain as a normal delay.

But it is not practical because it would take a lot of loops.


But my doubt still remains: is there any other way to make it work with less loops?
If i change just loops 2 and 4 (in the original drawing) to make they don't ground the effect input in bypass mode?
Is there any problem doing it? This way it uses only one loop per path position.

The only issue i see, is that when the removable effect is bypassed in both loops, it's input will be "open" instead of "grounded". Is there any problem doing it?

Thanks again,
Wagner.

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:28 am
by nyteowl
As long as I've been using Voodoo Lab products, I've learned they are sometimes not the best tools for the job when it comes to complicated rigs such as yours. All things considered, in a case like this I suspect the SoundSculpture GL might be a better option for routing your signal, for the simple reason it will allow you to program multiple different signal path presets, thus eliminating the need to physically route a particular effect's signal to multiple Loops using patch cables.

Used units are usually available for around $1K, but considering you would no longer need multiple loops to route your Mobius and TimeLine signals, the GL's 16 loops might be enough to do the job, so you wouldn't need 3 GCX units and could also free up two rack spaces.