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 Post subject: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Posts: 6
Hey everybody, Steve here. New to this Forum and to the GCX/GCP switching system.

I have sucessfully set up my GCP, in the 4-preset patch mode, allowing instant access buttons 1-8.

I just purchased an 11 rack and have NO IDEA how to get my GCP to get it respond to commands.
Here is what I have done, and it's obviously not right, so I need some help in Laymans terms.

1. I have connected the 5 pin midi cable to the 11 rack from the GCX
2. I have patched in the 11 rack through loop 6 of the GCX, just as I would a stompbox, using all 4 positions on the loop, i.e., I have connected loop 5 to loop 6, I have taken a cable from the "send" to the guitar input on the front of the 11 rack, I have taken a cable from the "return" to the "to amp" output on the 11 rack and I have patched from the "out" of channel 6, to the in on loop 7
4. I have assigned , under the "Device" section on the GCP, the 11 rack to respond to midi "channel" #1, and have instructed the 11 rack to receive midi commands under the "omni" setting which should allow midi communication from any channel.

Here is the problem:

With the 11 rack in a normal "loop" on the GCX, I only receive the preset that is displayed on the 11 rack...............in other words, it is set currently set up as an "instant access button". I don't see how I can "control" the 11 rack from the GCP when every single button is assigned to either banking up or down, calling up a preset patch (of effects loops) or activating an instant access button.

What the H#$& and I missing. I know it has to be something simple, but I am apparently incredibly dumb.

Please help me. I find myself, AGAIN, with a bunch of very cool gear that I can't use..............SUCKS!!!!!!!!

I know that there is a midi " dump " associated with the 11 rack...............and I believe it has to be done through Pro Tools, which I haven't even gotten to yet (so many more questions to come), but for now, I would be thrilled just to be able to scroll through the presets of the 11 rack.

How do I "turn" the GCP into a specific controller for the 11 rack?

Sincerely,

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am
Posts: 1021
Mesa Mark V CWSW wrote:

How do I "turn" the GCP into a specific controller for the 11 rack?

Sincerely,

Steve

By reading the two Eleven Rack posts up top.

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I am not affiliated with Voodoo Lab in any way, just sharing what little MIDI and signal routing knowledge I have. If you find it helpful, pay it forward; if not, sorry I wasn't able to be of any assistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Location: The Lab
Straight out of the box, the Ground Control Pro presets (buttons 1-4 on the bottom row) will change the patches on the Eleven Rack, just the preset names won't be displayed on the the Ground Control Pro screen. The Instant Access buttons default to controlling the GCX.

Does the Eleven Rack respond at all when you press Ground Control Pro preset buttons?

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:44 pm
Posts: 6
Thank you for your quick response.

I took your advice and read the posts that you referred me to. It appears they dealt specifically with the MIDI dump and hooking up an expression pedal to control the parameters within The Presets of the 11 rack. I am attempting an initial setup with the GCP

Am I to understand that after performing the mini dump from the 11 rack, that the GCP will automatically be set up and ready to go?

My dilemma is how do I have the GCP control just the 11 rack when all of the buttons have an assigned task?

Should I use presets 1 through 4, in the 4 preset setting, with banks 1 through 9 to control my looped stompbox settings, and then banks A thru Z to control my 11 rack settings?

I am looking specifically for how to setup the 11 rack initially with the GCP.

At this point, I am willing to bypass the GCX and the effects loops. I even tried taking a MIDI cable directly to the GCP, and was still unable to get it to communicate with the 11 rack

Hey John, was reviewing this post and noticed that you responded to my previous post.just wanted to say that I am in awe of your gear knowledge, and will be referring to you often. Let me apologize in advance

I will wipe out all of my current information on the GCP by doing a reset and see how it works with the 11 rack after that. Hopefully if I can bank up using patches 1 through 4, that also means that I will be able to program the continuous control setting as well

Again, I would like to thank everyone who has responded to this post in an attempt to help.

Any additional information would be very useful.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am
Posts: 1021
Mesa Mark V CWSW wrote:
Thank you for your quick response.

I took your advice and read the posts that you referred me to. It appears they dealt specifically with the MIDI dump and hooking up an expression pedal to control the parameters within The Presets of the 11 rack. I am attempting an initial setup with the GCP...

...I am looking specifically for how to setup the 11 rack initially with the GCP...

...At this point, I am willing to bypass the GCX and the effects loops. I even tried taking a MIDI cable directly to the GCP, and was still unable to get it to communicate with the 11 rack...

Any additional information would be very useful.

Thanks

Your original question was, and I quote: "How do I "turn" the GCP into a specific controller for the 11 rack?" and in your last post, quoted above, you basically repeated that question again.

With all due respect, the post titled Ground Control Pro + Eleven Rack Expansion Pack explains, in detail, exactly how to do that by uploading a pre-programmed MIDI dump to a GCPro.

I know this works because I downloaded the two files provided in the post, followed the step-by-step instructions provided and the end result was my GCPro changed 11-Rack presets using the bottom row of 4 buttons and the upper two rows of buttons controlled all the parameters as listed in that thread. If you had expression pedals to connect to your GCPro they would also function as described, but you don't need to have expression pedals hooked up for this to work.

What you have not yet explained, however, is what purpose the GCX serves in your rig, which may be the cause of confusion on both our parts. Everything I've referenced with regard to your GCPro and your 11-Rack does NOT require a GCX. You should plug your guitar directly into the 11-Rack and connect the MIDI out of your GCPro to the MIDI in of the 11-Rack. As John said, right out of the box your GCPro should control your 11-Rack just fine using the bottom row of buttons (and the Bank Up/Down buttons). Uploading the MIDI dump would not change that, but put the icing on the cake by adding the IA button functionality so you don't have to program that in manually.

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I am not affiliated with Voodoo Lab in any way, just sharing what little MIDI and signal routing knowledge I have. If you find it helpful, pay it forward; if not, sorry I wasn't able to be of any assistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:44 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks nyteowl.

One issue I am having is that I can't seem to download the files you mentioned, but I will be taking care of that and make my way through the files.

In reference to the function of my GCX in the mix:

I was hoping that I would be able to have both the analog effects (along with the use of my amp) and use of the 11 rack, all through the channel switcher when called upon. I was told that I should be able to use my main set up (Mesa tube head, and analog effects through the GCX) and the 11 rack (when called upon).

My main question was how do I call upon the 11 rack and then utilize the "Patch & the IA buttons" to control just it when all the IA buttons (1-8) just switch the loops. I am obviously missing something.

I will start by bypassing the GCX and going straight the the GCPro as you have suggested. I will also do a "reset" on the GCPro just to clean things up a bit.

Again, I am very greatful for your continued support and appreciate your patience.
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am
Posts: 1021
All you need do click on each file and choose "Save File" to download them to your computer. They'll be copied into the location to which your computer saves downloads.

Maybe it is just me who is confused about what it is you're trying to accomplish, but I suspect it's because you kept reiterating how you wanted your GCPro to act as a dedicated 11-Rack controller, but kind of overlooked mentioning how you were already controlling I-don't-know-how-many GCX loops with your IA buttons. Given that, I think what your missing is, you cannot configure your GCPro to be a "dedicated" controller for one device (11-Rack) and then expect it to also control a secondary device (GCX) while ignoring the first one.

If we set aside the "dedicated 11-Rack Controller" idea for a moment, what you could do is put your GCPro in 4 Presets/Bank mode and use the bottom row of 4 buttons to change presets on your 11-Rack and the upper two rows of IA buttons to control your GCX loops. You don't have to do the MIDI dump to accomplish this, but you will lose the ability to control the 11-Rack parameters as described earlier.

Would that work for you?

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I am not affiliated with Voodoo Lab in any way, just sharing what little MIDI and signal routing knowledge I have. If you find it helpful, pay it forward; if not, sorry I wasn't able to be of any assistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:44 pm
Posts: 6
Hey nyteowl.

Thanks for the info.

In the manual for the GCPro, it states that it will run up to 16 MIDI devices.

Let's put aside the GCX for the moment (FYI: the GCX is set up with 5 analog effects loops, and 3 loops used to switch my Mesa Mark V amp channels, all of which are set up as IA buttons in the 4-patch mode)

If I was to utilize another MIDI device (let's just say the T.C. Electronics G-Force for example), aren't I supposed to go into the "device/name/channel" portion of the GCPro (through set-up mode), and "name" and assign a "channel number" for that device as well? (Please note that I am aware that I need to assign the corresponding "channel" number in the MIDI device also)

The fact that I can name and assign channels for up to 16 devices (per the manual for the GCPro) implies that the GCPro should not only be able to call up each device seperately, but also controls the perameters within each device through the IA buttons.

It seems to me that the GCPro needs to be able to switch between channels, not banks or patches.

How do I switch between the "channels" to call up the specific MIDI device that I am trying to get active on the GCPro? I know that I am missing something so simple, but I cannot put my finger on it.

I would like to be able to keep my current set up (amp & analog effects), and incorporate the 11 rack into the equation, as I should be able to connect to & control up to 16 MIDI devices. Sorry for not understanding.

Do you take phone calls?

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 4285
Location: The Lab
Have you successfully got the Ground Control Pro changing the numbered patches on the Eleven Rack? If this doesn't work, then something else is wrong... so start here ;)

Here are the steps you should take to make this work in the most basic fashion:
1. Re-initialize the memory on the Ground Control Pro.
2. Set the Ground Control Pro to 4 Presets per Bank Mode.
3. Set the Eleven Rack to respond on MIDI Channel 1 only.

The above will allow you to at least recall numbered patches on the Eleven Rack using the large numbered buttons on the Ground Control Pro. This will work with or without the GCX in the MIDI path.



Once the above is working, you can start to tweak the setup so it matches your actual rig.
1. Go ahead and name the Eleven Rack as the first device in Setup Mode, Device Name/Channel and set its Starts At number to "00".
2. Enable the GCX in Setup Mode, Expanders.
3. Re-program the Ground Control Pro Instant Access buttons to do what you want...

Ground Control Pro Instant Access buttons will default to controlling the GCX, but they can be programmed to control things on your MIDI devices. Look to the Instant access section under Setup in the Ground Control Pro manual for details on how to re-program these buttons.

Ground Control Pro presets will recall the numbered patches on the Eleven Rack as well as recall the desired GCX Loops. Programming your Ground Control Pro presets is covered in the Edit Preset section of the Ground Control Pro manual.
In the Edit Preset section of the Ground Cotnrol Pro manual, Assigning MIDI Program Changes will explain how to set the Eleven Rack patch you want to be recalled... Controlling the GCX Guitar Audio Switcher will explain how to set the appropriate GCX Loops to
be recalled... and Naming Presets will explain, well you see ;)

I hope that helps!

p.s. If you are with your rig and want to call someone, feel free to call us and a tech can walk you through this same stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up the GCP to control the 11 rack
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:44 pm
Posts: 6
Hey John,

I was able to make some progress this weekend just by staying diligent.

I decided (as you had suggested) to reset the GCP to the initial setup.

I ran the 11 rack through one of the loops in the GCX as well as connected a MIDI out cable from the back of the GCX to the 11 rack.

I was able to call up the presets of the 11 rack by using the patch buttons on the GCP. I went as far as manually setting the 11 rack patches to the alphabetical patches of the GCP so they would actually match:
(bank)A (patch)1= A1 on the GCP to (preset) AI on the 11 Rack, and so on.

MAKING PROGRESS...............DAMN RIGHT!!!!!

My next question is:
-How do I set up the 11 rack (what cables go where?) to bypass the PRE-AMP portion of my Mesa Mark V?
(I am getting too much of the Mesa in the presets of the 11 Rack. I am trying to get a tone that is true to the 11 Rack, and not a tone that matches my Amp.)
Let me state that I certainly want my amp tone, but I am setting that up in the numbered banks on the GCP.

I don't have much on the back of the Mesa in way of pre-amp bypass. I have an effects loop, and a "slave" jack, and that's about it, other than the external channel switching capabilities (that are being utilized in the GCX)

I would appreciate your assistance further, and thank you very much for getting back to me with this information John.

My wife is getting a guy to build me a computer that will have all the necessary operating/memory/media systems necessary for me to start using the Pro Tools 10 & the expansion pack that came with the 11 Rack.

Getting really excited about getting this going.

Thanks again.

Steve


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