Tap tempo.... G-Force

Q & A for building and interfacing your rack gear with Ground Control Pro and GCX-based systems.
bettsaj
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Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by bettsaj » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:08 am

Before anyone say anything I know this isn't the TC Electronic forum... I've posted there also but thought I'd cover all bases as you guys here are very knowledgeable, and may have come across this issue before.

Simple issue, with hopefully a simple solution.

I have built a simple tap tempo pedal using a momentary normally open SPST switch for my TC G-Force. I simply soldered the terminals of the switch to the terminals of the jack socket, this is plugged into the external control socket on the back of the G-Force, However it doesn't work. I'm getting a signal to the G-Force but it's not making any changes to the tempo. When I click the pedal, i get the pedal light flash on the G-Force but the signal seems to stop there. I've ensured the G-Force is recognising the pedal which it does when I set the G-force to "learn" mode.... I press the pedal and it stores the pedal.

Is there something I'm missing here? What I have noticed is that I get the light on the G-Force light up when i press the button and also when i depress the button on the pedal, like it's bouncing. I checked everything by setting up one of the buttons on my ground control to change the tempo via midi and it worked a charm so I know it's not the tap tempo function on the G-Force that's at fault. Am i using the correct type of switch?

I have since purchased a Boss FS-5U thinking it might be the switch... I've received the Boss pedal and still no cigar. The same issue...... I've also tried a slow tempo and it's just not registering. The light on the G-Force flashes, both on pressing and depressing the switch but it's just not registering the tempo. It's really annoying as it'll work when i assign a midi button to it from my ground control pro. Someone on the TC forum has suggested changing the switch to a latching type of switch.......
"My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

David Gilmour

Marlboro05
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Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by Marlboro05 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:03 am

Hi bettsaj,

I just tried it on my G Major 2, I had to set in Global, pedal type to momentary, then in Mod, Tap Tempo to Pedal, not learn. I’m wondering if your better to try Pedal in yours to?

In the manual it says :

When set to any value between 2 and 1/32T, the Global Tempo is subdivided according to this setting. When set to “Ignore”, the speed set using the Speed parameter is used instead.
The Tap Master parameter – located in the Global menu – specifies whether the Global tempo or the tempo set by the Speed parameter in each preset should be used at preset change.

So I set Delay Tempo to 1 and it does what the tap tempo is. Don’t know if that’s any help to you.

Cheers Brett
GCPro, GCX, Pedal Power 2+, Pedal Power AC.
And some other stuff.

Marlboro05
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by Marlboro05 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:34 am

Hi there,

I’m pretty sure yours is the same, if it is set to ignore the tap tempo, which is the global setting, will not do anything. This is from the G Force manual:

Tempo
Set the global tempo by tapping the Tempo key. The global tempo can be used as a common tempo guide in all presets. All Delay algorithms and all algorithms containing a speed are able to use the global tempo.
Tapping a tempo into a Delay
All Delay and Speed parameters have links to the Global Tempo menu. This means that a tapped tempo can be used in any presets that have these parameters. To make the tempo fit your purpose, we added a subdivision in all these algorithms. All you have to do is set up which subdivision parameter you would like the tempo to divide into.
Example: You want a Delay to perform 1/8 triplets. Go into the Edit parameter page of the Delay and select 1/8 T. Now you can just tap the BPM on the Tempo key (or via a pedal), and the Delay will automatically recalculate into 1/8 triplets in the current tempo. The same goes for all the algorithms containing Speeds.
The algorithms able to use the global tempo are: Delay
Chorus
Flanger
Phaser Tremolo Panner
and modifiers LFO 1
LFO 2
The Tempo display
Tapping the Tempo key will cause the Tempo display to pop up, and the Billboard will be blinking at the current tempo. Both the Tempo display and the blinking Billboard will disappear automatically after a few seconds.
In the Tempo display, you can see the BPM (Beats per minute) tapped in, or you can dial a BPM placing the cursor on Tempo, and dialing the Value Wheel.
Maximum tempo - 300 BPM.
Minimum tempo - 20 BPM.
Overide preset tempo at preset change
Controls whether the tempo should be influenced instantaneously at preset changes or if the new preset should await the next tapped tempo.
Example: You are using a preset with a straight 1/4 note delay, and you tapped the tempo into the G-Force, let’s say 120 BPM, meaning that you have tapped a Global Tempo of 500 ms. Now you change preset, and the new preset is suppose to use 1/8 triplets. Do you want the preset to use the existing tempo right away, or do you want the preset to wait for the next tapped tempo.?
Selecting Yes, will enable the presets to use the tempo instantaneously at preset changes.
Tempo controlled via pedal/MIDI
The Tempo can be tapped via the External input jack on the back panel of the G-Force or via a MIDI On/Off switch. That is setup in the I/O Setup, control display.

Cheers Brett
GCPro, GCX, Pedal Power 2+, Pedal Power AC.
And some other stuff.

Marlboro05
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by Marlboro05 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:36 am

Hi there,

Found this bit in the manual to:

STEREO DELAY
Time
Sets the delay time of both Left and Right channel. Maximum delay time is 740 ms.
Tempo
The Tempo parameter sets the relationship to the global Tempo e.g. if you set it to 1/4T you will get quarter note triplets of the tapped tempo. 1/4 equals the BPM (tapped Tempo).
If you select “Ignored” the current parameter will use the Preset value and will not be affected by the Global Tempo.

Cheers Brett
GCPro, GCX, Pedal Power 2+, Pedal Power AC.
And some other stuff.

bettsaj
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:13 pm
Location: Darkest Suffolk UK
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Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by bettsaj » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:55 am

thanks guys....

Marlboro05. I'll recheck all my settings.... I'm sure it's something simple. The G-Force isn't that far removed from the G-Major2 so some of the settings will be the same I suspect.
When i set it to learn, and tap the pedal it identifies the pedal and sets it to pedal. What I haven't done is set the pedal type to momentary....... Maybe that's the issue.
"My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

David Gilmour

JohnClark
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Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by JohnClark » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:33 am

I think that the G-Force correctly identifies the pedal when in Learn mode and even shows activity on the display when pressing the button means that the switch and its wiring is fine.

The Latching/Momentary setting should match the switch type you have used. However, having this set wrong won't make the tempo not work at all, it will just work in a sort of double time, or half time depending on the mismatch.

Exactly what setting is missing, I am not sure, but somewhere within the G-Force you will have to define that you want the "Pedal" data to control tap tempo for the specific effect you want to control on the current preset... basically, where the G-Force differs from the G-Major is that there is a ton of tweakable stuff in the G-Force but it is buried in the menu system. This allows for an amazing level of control, but sometimes can be a complete brain nuking event when you just want to make something work that otherwise seems so simple.
Without trying it myself, I would think that it should be that you assign the "Pedal" as a "MOD", then you need to assign that number'd MOD to a function. It can be Global or even set only on a specific preset. The key is going into whatever G-Force preset you are wanting it to do something and checking that the specific effect parameter is indeed set to respond to either the Global Tempo or the individual numbered MOD ... (heh makes total sense, right :? )

I hope to get a moment to try it out myself sometime today, but let us know if you find it before me! ;)

Marlboro05
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by Marlboro05 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:55 pm

Hi there,

I nearly bought one of these years ago, wish I had, I have 2 G Major 2 units. They look like they have a bit more going on, would have been a bit better an option I think.

I tested the learn last night to and it did the same thing on the G Major 2, went to pedal.

Hopefully you get this sorted.

Cheers Brett
GCPro, GCX, Pedal Power 2+, Pedal Power AC.
And some other stuff.

JohnClark
Posts: 7238
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: The Lab

Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by JohnClark » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:01 pm

OK so I got this set up here on a G-Force I have here.

1. Simply connecting the pedal switch to the External Control jack on the rear panel and pressing the button on the pedal makes the G-Force front panel "Pedal" LED flash. (I too have a Momentary button connected so it does also flash at the button press and again at the release. This is totally normal.)
2. In the Utility Menu go to the CONFIG Tab and scroll down to the Environment section. Here you will want to set the Pedal Type to Momentary. (The other two Pedal parameter settings are for when you are using an Expression pedal, so you can ignore those.)
3. In the I/O Setup Menu go to the CONTROL Tab and scroll down to the G-Force Control section. Here you can set what controls Tempo. The easiest way is to just scroll to the Tempo setting then hit Enter to start the Learn function... then press the footswitch button. This should make the large display show a sort of shrinking eye thing that flashes to the currently set tempo. Tapping a tempo now on your footswitch should make the "shrinking eye" flash at the same tempo you just tapped.
4. Now, back at a preset that has Delay active (press the Recall button to get back to your previously loaded preset) you should look at how the Tempo is defined. In the Effects Menu go to the EDIT Tab. Use the Parameter Wheel to underline "DLY" then press Enter. Under the PARAM Tab are settings to tweak the Delay for this particular preset. Scroll to "..TEMPO" and you can set the Note timing (like Whole Note, Quarter Note, or Dotted Eighths... etc.) ... what I bet has been missed is that here your delay may be set to "Ignore" which, as you may guess, will ignore the tapped tempo.

Easy, eh? ;)

I hope that helps!

bettsaj
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Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by bettsaj » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:41 am

It all sounds easy...... In theory

I'll follow your instructions to the letter john and report back. Many thanks for this, you're a star :-) And that goes to all others... I love the G-Force and have recently been diving deep into how this thing works and it's a phenomenal piece of kit... The best £130 I've ever spent. Yes, £130 ($170). I found it in a music shop a couple of years ago, they had it marked up used for £130... I don't think they realised what it was, and put it up for the price of a G-Major.

The only thing I've yet to sort out is the tap tempo.... The manual doesn't make much sense to me, or maybe i'm just missing something.
In the Utility Menu go to the CONFIG Tab and scroll down to the Environment section. Here you will want to set the Pedal Type to Momentary. (The other two Pedal parameter settings are for when you are using an Expression pedal, so you can ignore those.)
I have this set to alternating as I have 2 expression pedals.... Won't changing this to momentary interfere with the expression pedals?

I'll try what you've done John, and report back.
"My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

David Gilmour

bettsaj
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:13 pm
Location: Darkest Suffolk UK
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Re: Tap tempo.... G-Force

Post by bettsaj » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:21 pm

Unfortunately, it didn't work.... Did all you suggested, got to the I/O section control menu... Selected tempo, went into learn mode, the blinking eye flashed when I pressed the footswitch, then after that nothing. I pressed the tempo button on the front of the G-Force which started the blinking eye flashing... i pressed the footswitch and the tempo wasn't changing.

However, i tried something different. On the back of my rack I have a patch panel which has a socket for the tap tempo cable. The terminals of the socket are wired to a small patch lead that is plugged into the G-Force. I bypassed this patch cable and plugged the footswitch into a spare guitar lead, and then the other end of the lead directly into the G-Force. It worked a charm.... So either it's not working because it doesn't like the patch panel/patch lead set up... or something's wired incorrectly.

john, can you think of any reason it doesn't like the patch panel/patch lead scenario?? Maybe a buffer might help preserve the signal?
"My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

David Gilmour

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